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Meliah
11-11-2010, 10:38 PM
As a reminder to you all here on The Bench you get a Bench point for each completed trade. Bench points are used to determine Trader of the Month and HOF status; one other very important feature completed trades have is that you have the chance to rate the transaction which factors into a trader's overall Trader Rating. This is a great tool that people can use to judge other trader's on and also determines when and if special avatars need to be used on a person.

A deal that involves you giving away a free card, or in exchange for a SASE, is to be posted as such and NOT an actual trade. Since nothing is being actually traded no Bench point is to be awarded in such cases. The Trade Manager allows you to set up free card transactions so they can be tracked for the convenience of the traders.

As always though there has to be a few bad eggs in the bunch. Today a trader was caught using false trades to boost Bench point totals and ratings. The thing that bothers me the most about this is that it takes two to tango to cheat like this and this was done not with the help of one person but multiple Bench members--many of which are established members here and in the Bench HOF. I'm not here to call anyone out but I must say I was a bit dismayed to see the list of members that were involved in this. The main cheater has been suspended for 6 months and all Bench points and ratings will be removed. Does anyone out there really think that "a thank you" in exchange for a "shout-out on a YouTube video" is a worthy trade for a Bench point?

From here on out when we catch people trying to cheat the system we will come done harshly and for BOTH parties involved.

We will catch you if you try to cheat.

BiggioDiogu759
11-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Thanks you Meliah :)

mrmopar
11-11-2010, 10:53 PM
They probably should be called out. That is a trait someone may not appreciate in a trade partner.

On an unrelated note...Anyone got any "yo's" to trade for a vintage "wassup?"


I'm not here to call anyone out but I must say I was a bit dismayed to see the list of members that were involved in this. The main cheater has been suspended for 6 months and all Bench points and ratings will be removed. Does anyone out there really think that "a thank you" in exchange for a "shout-out on a YouTube video" is a worthy trade for a Bench point?

From here on out when we catch people trying to cheat the system we will come done harshly and for BOTH parties involved.

We will catch you if you try to cheat.

cadets68
11-11-2010, 11:04 PM
People are insane, just ban them. The Bench does not need that.

Shawn

entersandman
11-11-2010, 11:07 PM
I think it's a good idea to enforce the free trade rule. i also think its a good idea to just warn traders not to do this practice as well. I think you start banning people it just takes the fun out of this site.

BiggioDiogu759
11-11-2010, 11:08 PM
I agree. Call them out then BAN

cadets68
11-11-2010, 11:11 PM
I think it's a good idea to enforce the free trade rule. i also think its a good idea to just warn traders not to do this practice as well. I think you start banning people it just takes the fun out of this site.

There have been a few hundred people banned from this site. Still seems fun to me. Just saying

Shawn

Meliah
11-11-2010, 11:13 PM
There have been a few hundred people banned from this site. Still seems fun to me. Just saying

Shawn

Ha, was just going to say something along those lines:) I've personally banned over 100 people I think over the years here, thing is you just don't notice it usually. The Mod team here acts so quickly even the bans don't ripple the water much.

entersandman
11-11-2010, 11:17 PM
Ok i should of said it better. I think banning someone over this would be a mistake. (unless they've been warned of course)

TheDogHollerer
11-11-2010, 11:18 PM
As a newbie, what exactly are the behaviors that gets one banished around here...

slavlite
11-11-2010, 11:26 PM
As a newbie, what exactly are the behaviors that gets one banished around here...

The FAQ explains many circumstances where a ban is warranted. Basically if you are thinking about doing something that you wouldn't want done to you, its a good idea to not do that.

TheDogHollerer
11-11-2010, 11:28 PM
Basically if you are thinking about doing something that you wouldn't want done to you, its a good idea to not do that.

Truer words have never been spoken...

slavlite
11-11-2010, 11:31 PM
Ok i should of said it better. I think banning someone over this would be a mistake. (unless they've been warned of course)

In a situation such as this, cheating the system, a 6 Month suspension is your warning. The site is for trading, an exchange of goods of some sort (Doesnt always have to be cards or sports related i.e. Misc. FT/FS Forums).

Meliah explains very well that Bench points and trader ratings are the tools we use as traders to determine someones credability. IF the sytem is abused in this way, it makes our tool untrustworthy. We simply won't tolerate behavior such as this.

bronxbombers14
11-11-2010, 11:37 PM
Thanks,I know I have two smaller warnings and am trying to get better at that kind of stuff....thanks

7guns
11-11-2010, 11:41 PM
I have to agree with the above. Even if they were not banned they should be called out and give other traders the chance to at least choose if that is the the type of person that they want to deal with.Trust when trading online is all you have and charter goes along those lines to me,Just my thoughts,but as they always do the mod team will do what they feel is best for the Bench and it seems to be working.Keep up the good and hard work that it takes.

BiggioDiogu759
11-11-2010, 11:43 PM
The Bench is the Best

metsman1986
11-12-2010, 01:28 AM
Trade as the FAQ dictates and you'll be fine.......................If you don't, you're a "TOOL" and deserve to be banned.................

bbctrader
11-12-2010, 09:48 PM
Anyone that's trying to "rush up the ladder" so to speak more than likely has other motives at stake....what reasons could one have to get to the Hall of Fame other than a small amount of respect, the enjoyment of your hobby and the pleasure of helping others obtain their goals as well ?

mrmopar
11-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Perhaps it's not a rush up the ladder to the HOF, but enough trade points to earn credibility, in order to wrong someone. Who isn't going to trust that guy with 75 trades and a 5.0 rating, only to find out most trades were faked or small $ deals and #76 is now SOL.

That is something to always consider, be it a trade site or ebay or other. High point levels almost always mean trustworthiness, but not always. I could have 250 $1 trades and then decide I am ready to rip someone off for major value. I look trustworthy, but only because I have been planning for this great heist, using small trade amounts in volume. It may sound sinister, but if I thought of it, someone else can too.

Still looking for takers on the "yo" though...I'll even take a "swell" or "gee golly"!


Anyone that's trying to "rush up the ladder" so to speak more than likely has other motives at stake....what reasons could one have to get to the Hall of Fame other than a small amount of respect, the enjoyment of your hobby and the pleasure of helping others obtain their goals as well ?

bbctrader
11-12-2010, 10:30 PM
That's where I was going ... :-(

Too bad - is it really worth it?

tribefan
11-12-2010, 10:50 PM
It's puzzling that people would go to this extreme to gain points. For what?

The thrill of not having to send first?
An avatar?
Do we get to cash points in at retirement?

I don't want to know who these people are, quite honestly. I would hope that being caught by the mods should be embarrassing enough.

tribefan
11-12-2010, 10:52 PM
Anyone that's trying to "rush up the ladder" so to speak more than likely has other motives at stake....what reasons could one have to get to the Hall of Fame other than a small amount of respect, the enjoyment of your hobby and the pleasure of helping others obtain their goals as well ?

Trading on steroids.

7guns
11-12-2010, 11:43 PM
I feel while the mods do a great job here, that this issue is going to cause a lot of distrust.I say why not take a poll and at least consider the groups opinions.No disrespect meant towards any of the mods.

rangersfan1982
11-12-2010, 11:47 PM
If someone does not know this rule though, I think it's unfair to give a warning or anything for it. Just my personal opinion. I think that a member should be sent a message before WITHOUT a warning and then take further action if it happens again. I have set up trades that way because I didn't know the difference. I am already in The Bench H.O.F. and could care less about trader of the month - don't even know what people win for it, if anything. Again, just my personal opinion.

7guns
11-12-2010, 11:53 PM
My worry is not about the free cards part it is about the rest of the dishonesty.

rangersfan1982
11-12-2010, 11:57 PM
Like I said though, it may not be "dishonest" if someone truely doesn't know there is an alternate way to do it...so innocent people are kinda being screwed with a warning when they don't deserve one.

bbctrader
11-13-2010, 12:01 AM
I say let the MODS do their job - live by the rules, die by the rules. No need for a vote. One of the old problems with boards was that someone could just come back on with another name. That's the beauty here - yes you can, and you'll be subject to the same rules all over again.

I think the mods do an awesome job here and as someone mentioned earlier, you rarely notice someone getting booted....

Meliah
11-13-2010, 12:06 AM
Like I said though, it may not be "dishonest" if someone truely doesn't know there is an alternate way to do it...so innocent people are kinda being screwed with a warning when they don't deserve one.

Not knowing the rules is not an excuse. A warning does not "screw" you, it is what it is and that is just a warning. Nobody can even see the warning except for the person and Mods.

rangersfan1982
11-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Like I said, personal opinion.

7guns
11-13-2010, 12:35 AM
I think the mods do an awesome job here and as someone mentioned earlier, you rarely notice someone getting booted....

I do agree with this part of your statement.

TheDogHollerer
11-13-2010, 12:37 AM
As a new member, I can give you another reason why one would try to create fake transactions to increase their status, and it isn't to try to screw anyone over... although I am sure one or two would have that in mind.

I believe most would want to increase their score so they could sell here. Despite a new members credentials anywhere else... Ebay, Amazon, other trading sites... they cannot sell here until they have 20 trades.

Well, there are a fair amount of folks out there who prefer to sell their "hot cards" before they cool down... Strasburg anyone?.... and this place just provides more potential customers.

I am in no way advocating deceit.... far from it. I am just offering an explanation or opinion as to why one might try it...

mrmopar
11-13-2010, 01:02 AM
Perhaps bending a trade rule like trying to sell or something relevant.


If someone does not know this rule though, I think it's unfair to give a warning or anything for it.

Trying to get credit for trading a "thank you" for "shout out on You Tube video" is purposeful for no other reason but to pad numbers. Like Matt said, nobody could possibly mistakenly think that it would be an acceptable trade. It is a slap in the face of the site and its staff! That is not a "trade" in any way you possibly look at it.

These are the pack searchers of online trade sites!

rangersfan1982
11-13-2010, 04:06 PM
And what benefit does one get from "padding numbers" exactly? It's not like a freakin' baseball contract where you'll make more if your numbers are better. Stupid.

Champs96ws
11-13-2010, 04:14 PM
Because if your rating is below 5 or even warrants a MSF avatar a quick 20+ fake trades will help that rating. The person we caught didn't have 1 or 2 or even three fake trades, there was a substantial amount of trades posted and he has been here long enough to know better.

slavlite
11-13-2010, 04:19 PM
Rangerfan1982, It mostly comes down to Trader Rating in my opinion. In your case it has no effect but, for example lets look at it this way:

say Trader "x" has made 30 Trades on The Bench and has a 4.7 overall trader rating. Trader "x" has the MSF avatar because his trader rating is so low. Trader "X" wants a normal avatar, and figures if I can get 30 Straight 5.0 feedbacks then I will have an overall rating of at least 4.9 if not back to 5.0.
He then posts a bunch of "trades" that should be free cards of some sort, and recieves ratings based on something he shouldnt be getting ratings for. Boom his trader rating is higher and he is no longer required to send first. Now, turns out Trader "x" is a shady dude, and just wanted to get the MSF avatar gone so he could rip people off. No he posts a bunch of high dollar trades over the course of a day or two, waits for the cards to come in and disappears.

Basically the abuse is of the Ratings system, which most traders use as the only tool available to them to judge another traders trustworthiness (<made that word up :)) I know this example is extreme, but the integrity of our rating system is the biggest concern for this.

I for one pride myself on my Ratings, whether it is here on the bench, ebay, or any other site that has a feedback rating.

Our feedback system is unique as far as the 4 different categories (which we had long before ebay did) and is a great tool to use when deciding if I want to make a particular trade with any particular trader.

hope that makes sense.

-Nick

EDIT: Pete's explanation was quicker and much less wordy than mine :D

mrmopar
11-13-2010, 04:21 PM
Like my earlier post mentioned, higher numbers generally translate to greater trust in the trader. You probably trust a member with 285 trades more so than you would one with 2 trades! By padding the numbers with fake trades, someone who is dishonest could be creating a false sense of trustworthiness. What other reason could there be to record the number of trades? If established traders are padding numbers, then it's just an ego game. For that matter, why are post numbers recorded? There is no reason to know or care how often someone comments, but all the sites do it???

Another good reason for this site, mentioned earlier, and the only other reasonable explanation I can think of might be to get to 20 trades faster in order to be able to sell. Now I don't agree with the ban on new members selling, especially given they should send fist anyway, but I don't make the rules. What difference does it make if a new member has to send me cards BEFORE I pay or send me cards before I send them cards. They still have to send first. However, that is another topic debate for another time.


And what benefit does one get from "padding numbers" exactly? It's not like a freakin' baseball contract where you'll make more if your numbers are better. Stupid.

OriolesFan8
11-13-2010, 04:34 PM
Because if your rating is below 5 or even warrants a MSF avatar a quick 20+ fake trades will help that rating. The person we caught didn't have 1 or 2 or even three fake trades, there was a substantial amount of trades posted and he has been here long enough to know better.

Exactly,

Like Pete and Nick explained, to me it makes no difference if a trader has 250 points or 350 points, but if a number of those are "fake" trades, then their rating is bogus. The number of trades after 20 to me are just a number, it's the 5.0 rating that speaks to me.

Todd

baseballtracy67
11-13-2010, 04:57 PM
hey thanks for the post

"""""Does anyone out there really think that "a thank you" in exchange for a "shout-out on a YouTube video" is a worthy trade for a Bench point?"""

honestly thats a joke to me that is just someone who thought he found away to beat the system
i am very upset at my trader rating (4.6) :( but i talked to one of the mods on here and it really helped to know that i got off on a rough start. delivery time :/ that if i can make 50 trades or so with perfect ratings that i can end up with a 4.9.... im on this site everyday... and may i add only this site (with once a month checks on peggys) and am always looking for trades the part that got to me really is delivery time but that mod really encouredged me to step it up so from here on out... i will give a 110% and try my best to get a 4.9... trust me its been my goal for quite some time. and im always up to trade. so please traders on the bench please dont hesitate to trade because of my 4.6 because u guys (and girls) are the only ones who can help so i need ya

thanks guys and sorry for the long read, just want some people to know that i want to be apart of the bench family ;)

thanks
-Curtis

IRobo
11-13-2010, 11:44 PM
Can someone atleast PM me the names of these members. I don't want to trade with people that have the integrity of a sly fox.

jflan702
11-14-2010, 08:27 AM
No we will not PM you. Just know that the offending traders have been dealt with and the MOD team continues to watch out for everyone.

7guns
11-14-2010, 10:20 AM
All in all I just want to says Thanks to the Mod team and I think it is time for us to keep our trust in the like we always do and move on and keep making the Bench better.Thanks

PDHitman
11-14-2010, 10:31 AM
Mr Mopar,
I've got 6 "attaboys!" that I'll trade you for 2 EX or better w/ southern dialects "wassup"s.

Post if you agree.
Paul

robwes207
11-14-2010, 12:08 PM
If you cheat your banned.. simple concept.

MetDude
11-14-2010, 01:11 PM
:confused:
:eek:
Have 1 "WAY TO GO!"
Need 1 "YOU DA MAN!"
:D
will add in a bonus "fugghedaboudit" (a truly tough pull!)
:eek:
:confused:

;)

oldmarine0311
11-14-2010, 09:06 PM
I agree all the way around. Cheating never crossed my mind; I am here to learn about this darn hobby, lol. Well more about it. Trading is a side benefit, but it also speaks to the integrity of the group and each trader involved, so with that aspect I think these people need to be called out, but does that mean they need to be held publicly accountable. Again in some ways yes, but quite frankly I don’t want to know who they are; at least I don’t want to see a list of these people involved. After all I don’t recall seeing in the TOS for this group you will be judged and humiliated publicly. I do think this is a serious affect to the group and an affront to all members in the group. So I think the mods have their hands full here. But as a member of the group working to build my positive reputation, I think these people who were involved should be either banned, and or shall I say watched very closely. Memberships can be suspended and or outright banned as per the guidelines, and that’s the mods decision(s). I do think that if these people are going to stay in the group their numbers should be wiped clean and start over from scratch with any other restrictions the mods deem necessary. Mostly because it’s these people impugning the group, and every members reputation in the group.
Ah well that’s my rambling and my 2 bits the mods can take care of this issue, sad to see it happen here, but it does need to be dramatically dealt with in my opinion.
Dave

DaClyde
11-14-2010, 09:34 PM
If someone does not know this rule though, I think it's unfair to give a warning or anything for it. Just my personal opinion.

There is no excuse for not knowing the rules. By agreeing to the terms of membership on this site, when signing up, each one of us is stating that we have read and understood all of the rules . Anyone who starts out by lying that they read and understood the rules, and then starts whining about how ignorant they are of the rules, should be suspended until they read the rules.

BiggioDiogu759
11-14-2010, 09:35 PM
You know no one reads that anyway...Maybe this will change it...

mrmopar
11-14-2010, 09:52 PM
Really? Maybe you didn't read the rules, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who did and will continue to do so as they join.


You know no one reads that anyway

brewerfan34
11-14-2010, 10:59 PM
Thanks for the heads up as to what is going on. It should be noted that as long as "The Bench" stays popular and relavant, this type of thing will probably happen again. It makes me feel good to know that we have a mod team who works as hard as they do.


Thanks,

Frank

SLNoble13
11-15-2010, 01:09 PM
I am torn b/w calling out the individuals that did this and posting them for all to see or just allowing the mods to take care of it. I think they have done a good job in letting us all know what is and has been going on. I know I will never participate in a trade of some sort like this.

From my trades on here, I will say that I have throughly enjoyed it. There have been a few trades in which the post office has lost cards I have mailed and I know this happens to us all. But my problem is, and to those who have traded with me hopefully can vouch for me, that I am more then willing to work out something if this type of problem arises. A time or two I have been treated not so nice, even after I offered to send back original cards or others. For others, I have worked out trades and it has been a smooth transaction. I just think that some rush to judgment to quick and demand something happen right then and there.
Maybe this has nothing to do with this topic but sometimes I think respect has been thrown out the window.

Just my $.02 on this.

I for one really enjoy this site and meeting others and have met some really cool and nice individuals and am thankfully that the mods take care of any problem traders out there.

anglinomics
11-15-2010, 02:46 PM
I am torn b/w calling out the individuals that did this and posting them for all to see or just allowing the mods to take care of it. I think they have done a good job in letting us all know what is and has been going on. I know I will never participate in a trade of some sort like this.

From my trades on here, I will say that I have throughly enjoyed it. There have been a few trades in which the post office has lost cards I have mailed and I know this happens to us all. But my problem is, and to those who have traded with me hopefully can vouch for me, that I am more then willing to work out something if this type of problem arises. A time or two I have been treated not so nice, even after I offered to send back original cards or others. For others, I have worked out trades and it has been a smooth transaction. I just think that some rush to judgment to quick and demand something happen right then and there.
Maybe this has nothing to do with this topic but sometimes I think respect has been thrown out the window.

Just my $.02 on this.

I for one really enjoy this site and meeting others and have met some really cool and nice individuals and am thankfully that the mods take care of any problem traders out there.

You are a model Bench citizen. Things do get lost in the mail. Hopefully it is only 1% of the time.

SLNoble13
11-15-2010, 03:31 PM
You are a model Bench citizen. Things do get lost in the mail. Hopefully it is only 1% of the time.


Thanks. :)

mm1sub
11-15-2010, 04:29 PM
I have been debating as to whether I would comment on this thread but I guess I will throw my two cents into the ring. Being someone who spent the majority of my life in the military I have learned to follow rules. They are there for a reason. I tend to be a person who is not very forgiving of someone who tends to break the rules. If someone chooses to break those rules then I am all for banning that person or persons for good. I for one have complete faith in the moderators on this site. I do not trade on any other site and do not plan on doing so in the future. If two people have a problem with a trade then they should be able to work it out. If not then maybe it is time to find another hobby. I talk and trade on this site to get away from the other stuff that comes with every day life. I know that the moderators will do what is right and continue to make this the best trading site around.

Thank you.

Bryon

redsfan24
11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
It doesnt make any sense just to pad your trades, its not like there is a special prize to it.


:confused:
:eek:
Have 1 "WAY TO GO!"
Need 1 "YOU DA MAN!"
:D
will add in a bonus "fugghedaboudit" (a truly tough pull!)
:eek:
:confused:

;)

DEAL! ;)

cjay101
11-15-2010, 04:39 PM
There is a lot of behind-the-scenes work that takes place on these cases that is not brought out in front of the general membership. I personally have been on staff since 2004 and can say there have only been a handful of times that I did not agree or did not eventually agree with the outcome of a decision we have made. Nothing is perfect.

The toughest job we have is separating the small hiccups from the major issues when everything is brought to us at one time. We have a solid staff on board and every single one of us is all about putting the community's best interests first.

Anyone who is trading on here (whether it be a day or 5 years) should feel comfortable that 99.9% of their trading is going to go without a hitch and that all issues will be addressed as necessary.

In lieu of all the previous comments, I would state that we have never suspended or booted anyone without a fair warning or a very forward reason to do so immediately. There are only a handful of members that are NEVER welcomed back. The majority of the people suspended will receive a 2nd chance once their suspension is up and time has been served (if they choose to take it). Likewise, there have been countless times we have issues warnings and the member has been perfect since receiving it. That is the end goal of the system. Root out the bad, get everyone in line with the active policies, and have fun trading cards.

dp33
11-15-2010, 05:05 PM
It doesnt make any sense just to pad your trades, its not like there is a special prize to it.



Shoot. All these trades and nothing to show for it. My wife will be so disappointed. Oh yeah, wait, I have a whole closet full of cards now...

I think The Dog Hollerer gave probably the best reason, but as suggested by others, there are many reasons. I'll just agree with everyone that the Mods have handled it well and in a way that doesn't interrupt any of the trading that is going on here. Thanks Mod staff!

redsfan24
11-15-2010, 09:30 PM
Shoot. All these trades and nothing to show for it. My wife will be so disappointed. Oh yeah, wait, I have a whole closet full of cards now...


my bad, i meant by the amount you have. there is no cash or card prizes offered here for reaching a certain amount of trades other than the profit you make here and the new cards you gain.

dp33
11-15-2010, 09:38 PM
my bad, i meant by the amount you have. there is no cash or card prizes offered here for reaching a certain amount of trades other than the profit you make here and the new cards you gain.

Sorry - it's my attempt at sarcasm that was bad :o . Definitely no prize for having a higher amount of trades, so my wife would question the sanity of it all. Hasn't stopped me yet though...

redsfan24
11-15-2010, 09:44 PM
Sorry - it's my attempt at sarcasm that was bad :o.just clarifying any misinterpritation

u2me57
11-18-2010, 11:03 PM
Thanks mods for doing everything you can to keep this site clean.

BostonNut
11-21-2010, 06:19 PM
Thank you Mods!

My two cents are that the HOF members who participated should be permanently banned from the HOF. They can keep their points but the HOF should be reserved for only the best.

Motown G
11-21-2010, 06:35 PM
This is a great topic, but a quick question as to why posts are kept track of here? Aren't the completed trades the important issue? Posts just mean that you are on this site frequently, right? Thank you in advance!

slavlite
11-21-2010, 06:37 PM
Posts are generally kept track of on forums. It breaks down to being a part of the community, which is why post count is part of Our HOF requirments. Not everyone cares, but I know for me a big part of my love of the Bench is having people to discuss the hobby with other than just the trades. At 32 nearly 33 Years old, I dont have a lot of local friends involved with the hobby.

Jeffo65
11-21-2010, 06:42 PM
Posts are generally kept track of on forums. It breaks down to being a part of the community, which is why post count is part of Our HOF requirments. Not everyone cares, but I know for me a big part of my love of the Bench is having people to discuss the hobby with other than just the trades. At 32 nearly 33 Years old, I dont have a lot of local friends involved with the hobby.

Man you are old. :D

Motown G
11-21-2010, 06:48 PM
Posts are generally kept track of on forums. It breaks down to being a part of the community, which is why post count is part of Our HOF requirments. Not everyone cares, but I know for me a big part of my love of the Bench is having people to discuss the hobby with other than just the trades. At 32 nearly 33 Years old, I dont have a lot of local friends involved with the hobby.


Thank you!! And now I am feeling old :D :D

7guns
11-21-2010, 06:49 PM
Thank you Mods!

My two cents are that the HOF members who participated should be permanently banned from the HOF. They can keep their points but the HOF should be reserved for only the best.

Not a bad idea would not be to much different than Pete Rose or some of the others we will never see get in.